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Post by bgraser12 on Jul 14, 2011 12:39:19 GMT -5
As ASA state is this weekend and NSA state is coming up, its got me thinking and wondering what has to be done in the state of WI to have more teams participate in a given association. I am not starting this thread to bash people or to try and say my team is better than your team because we participate. I am just trying to figure out why teams do not play. I know the number one thing will be $. We all play ASA leagues (at least in mke) this weekend to go to stevens point to play state it was $275 and two nights in a hotel. All told probably $800. Even if you have none thats less than $70 a guy for a team of 12. I know in ASA some of mke players are rated B for many previous years of softball so that makes it difficult. So i'm looking for reasons. As a guy who hopefully has a good 10 years of playing softball, what has to be done to draw more teams. for you who aren't going what would make you go? In the end its only gonna make WI better as a state for softball if we can draw more teams. I'm looking for input not bashing. I'd like to hear your ideas or reasons why you aren't playing...and if you aren't what would make you want to play?
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Post by tak2811 on Jul 14, 2011 12:56:35 GMT -5
We stopped going to the state tourny because of the $. You pay an entry of $275 and if you place, you lose $$. You get no assistance with the national level, unless you win it (paid entry), maybe that has changed but that was how it was 4 years ago. No one seems to be able to give you a answer as to where all the entry fee money goes, I mean just look at the entry form. It is like a 15% payout. Then you have, what seems to be discussed more in other boards, an issue with teams and/or players getting allowed to come back into a certain division or drop down. Competition is good, but I think that may also be chasing some teams away because they feel that they are making a donation and have no chance to place let alone win. WI needs to look at what MN is doing because there doesn't seem to be these issues there. More qualifiers (not just state), more $$$ that is paid out, more assistance with nationals, and consistantly full tournaments. I think that if you dropped the entry fee and raised either the payout or gave more towards nationals, then you may see an increase in teams at state. Otherwise, like MN, offer more qualifiers throughout the state at different times. State should not be the only way that you can make it to ASA Nationals in WI, just my 2 cents.
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Post by sburgy4 on Jul 14, 2011 12:59:12 GMT -5
They need to sanction homwrun heaven as utrip, have utrip leagues there and tournaments. I'd love to see county go to nsa rules. Start with leagues sanctioning themselves to introduce people to the real game. Not this 16 ft pitch, no foul Bullshit everyone sees at coachhouse and Milwaukee. Down in Illinois there is a sanctioned tournament almost every weekend and the teams down thete overall are better because of it. The talent is here but there is nowhere to play it outside of dumb carnival tourneys.
Just an idea but why not talk to Valentine and sanction your summer or early bird tourney buy allow open rodgers. Im sure there'd be more work then that but it'd be a start.
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Post by sburgy4 on Jul 14, 2011 13:01:21 GMT -5
Boom.. he gets it. We stopped going to the state tourny because of the $. You pay an entry of $275 and if you place, you lose $$. You get no assistance with the national level, unless you win it (paid entry), maybe that has changed but that was how it was 4 years ago. No one seems to be able to give you a answer as to where all the entry fee money goes, I mean just look at the entry form. It is like a 15% payout. Then you have, what seems to be discussed more in other boards, an issue with teams and/or players getting allowed to come back into a certain division or drop down. Competition is good, but I think that may also be chasing some teams away because they feel that they are making a donation and have no chance to place let along win. WI needs to look at what MN is doing because there doesn't seem to be these issues there. More qualifiers (not just state), more $$$ that is paid out, more assistance with nationals, and consistantly full tournaments.
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Post by bgraser12 on Jul 14, 2011 13:12:57 GMT -5
I have thought about that...but would teams come? would it make state better? Yes i hear you that it cost alot and where does ASA money go, but if you only played one weekend, then did the world its not life or death...You are going to pay and play as much if you do little qualifiers that pay out. What if you don't cash much in those? then you spent more. I know there are more than 10 good C teams in WI and more than 16 D teams. But we are consistently just having teams not play or prefer the carnival way where they can just get drunk. I can list 10-15 off the top of my head from around here that could be playing ASA this weekend.
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Post by schwarzy on Jul 14, 2011 13:16:57 GMT -5
How are team and player classifications tracked? Looking at the ASA website and searching teams that played ASA state last year and neither the Team nor Players are listed. Who is in charge of getting this stuff updated?
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Post by bgraser12 on Jul 14, 2011 13:23:09 GMT -5
That would probably be a question for the dishers...not that they are in charge but they would know the answer to that.
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Post by schwarzy on Jul 14, 2011 13:31:15 GMT -5
asasoftball.com is spotty.... gosoftball.com is better (has multiple league bodies - asa, utrip), but the question is why are only some teams/players getting posted?
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Post by jimvalentine on Jul 14, 2011 13:43:43 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
Our State Championship costs $200.
The distribution is as follows:
Umpires - 2 umpires per game - $25 per umpire - 3 umpires for the last two games and IF game. NSA fee that goes to corporate - $ 45 per team State Sales tax 5.5% Patches for winners - $16.20 Plaques for winners - $250
I break even at 6 and a half teams.
Here is what 10 teams looks like Umpires - $1,025 NSA Fees - $450 State Taxes $100 Patches - $16.20 Trophies $250
That leaves me with $158.80.
Notice that I have not paid myself or my UIC yet.
If anyone has any other questions please let me know. I would like to know why no one else plays NSA ball.
How about you Brandon? Why don't you play NSA ball? I know I am just too old and too much around the middle, if you know what I mean.
Jim
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Post by mattdisher on Jul 14, 2011 14:16:13 GMT -5
Here is how it works Based on 24 Teams.
ENTRY FEES $6,600 Balls for tournament $235 Umpires - 2 Ea Game $1,880 Scorekeepers $376 Prize Money $1000 Sales Tax $363 10% to City $660 UIC Fee $200 Trophies $150 Statistician ($15 per game) $705 Assessment ($30 per team) $720 Umpire Hotel Rooms $300
We start the tournament -$89.00
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Post by tak2811 on Jul 14, 2011 14:16:46 GMT -5
Having different opportunities to qualify would just give you more flexibility to qualify. Will it help the state, don't know but the current way is not improving it. Yes teams will have to spend, but with different locations that may draw more and expenses may be less.
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Post by bgraser12 on Jul 14, 2011 14:44:09 GMT -5
Jim- I am playing NSA with mike cook's team...I will not get into why KA is not playing NSA, maybe next year.... I love NSA, ASA, WSL. haven't had the experience with USSSA yet. However my whole point is that no one plays anything. and how do we get teams to play like we see in illinois where they have 20 teams every weekend playing association ball. I can think of 10-15 teams just in the mke area that don't play that could play and would be good for a D level associaton and some C teams as well.
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jlemmer24
Full Member
Comatose / The Carom Room
Posts: 199
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Post by jlemmer24 on Jul 14, 2011 15:13:06 GMT -5
Great thread guys. Thanks to both state directors for the breakdown of where the money goes. From what I hear in Southern Wi teams dont have the $$$ and they don't like how you can play different classes for different associations. Maybe WI needs to get a system to classify each player from all the associations and thats what each player is rated? Also I have noticed many trnys cancel or teams entered way down this year. Hoping softball is not on the decline in our state.
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Post by southside on Jul 14, 2011 15:21:31 GMT -5
Disher I had this argument with you last year and gave you several ideas to raise more money to pay out.
Sponsor it!!!!!!!! (i.e. beer sponsors, food sponsors, SOFTBALL GEAR sponsors, Hotel Sponsors, etc etc etc. . .) Don't you sell concessions there??? Where does all that $ go?
Both teams and umpires are requried to keep book and check each total after each inning. I have no idea if you have scoreboards or not, but some kid in the stands or the home team could easily run them. That would save you $700 right there that you could give to the qualifiying teams for travel vouchers.. . .
You just don't want to think outside of the box and value the "honor to play for a state championship" over all else. . .
It aint cheep to bring a team across the state and play and that is why you have 2 state tournaments and dont even have 20 teams there. You want the best teams in the state to play? Make it worth the time and effort to come over there.
Either that or have regional qualifiers in the Northwest, Northeast, Southwest and Southeast to get into the state championships. . . .
Make the thing corporate and not depend on the teams that play to fund the entire operation with entry fees.
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Post by jimvalentine on Jul 14, 2011 16:03:23 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
Illinois is not that great. We may see some tournaments with big numbers but they are usually NIT's or State Championships. Mostly their qualifiers are 4 or 5 teams.
Also I watch SeriousSoftball.com and all they do down in Illinois is complain about all of the State Directors. Wisconsin is very calm in that regard.
I was thinking it might be the economy but I was talking to the Indiana State Director and he says his numbers are up. I know that Illinois NSA has picked up a lot of parks down there.
So I am as bewildered as you guys are.
Brandon, I will look forward to seeingyouon the 31st. Make sure we get a chance to talk one on one.
Jim
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