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Post by dewey36 on Jul 15, 2011 13:24:55 GMT -5
not enough time to read everyone's posts but my opinion is the WASA needs to stop being so stubborn and let WSL into WI......we are basically forced to drive to MN to play in all of the good tournaments: corky's, shakopee, firemen's.....all of which just happen to be WSL.......the park in new richmond is basically being wasted......great complex close to the border.......could easily have a huge WSL tourney there and pull tons of teams from the cities
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Post by cwall282 on Jul 15, 2011 14:06:41 GMT -5
cwall282 You are right. I live down in the SE corner of the state. Bad Luck I guess. Every time I try to run a tournament in any part of the State I usually have a ballplayer who is willing to do some leg work for me. If someone around Madison would have stepped up I would have tried there. I have also been up to Green Bay and Ashwaubenon with no luck. I have tried Eau Claire, 3 years in a row, with no luck. But Madison is not 5 hours away so I am a little perplexed about where you are at. One of the other problem is that there doesn't seem to be any decent parks around. When I say decent I mean at least 4 diamonds in decent condition, with lights and good management. I was even at Loggers but had problems with him. Every year I try to run Minn/Wis State Championships in New Richmond , up near Minneapolis but I have a hard time finding anyone to run the tournament. I have tried everything I can think of and I have listened to ideas and tried them. I have not made any money any year. I lose money every year. I have done this because I love the game and I have been trying to give back. But it just doesn't seem to be appreciated. It seems that I am being stonewalled by another group who is constantly working against me and that is not fair to the ballplayers of Wisconsin, or to me. jimvalentineI am not in anyway calling you out I actually think we need more guys like you around. You do this tourneys and dedicate all your time and lose in the end. You are just like my dad he has done this kind of stuff for years always losing out. I think a good place for you to look into is Sunny Vale park in Wausau, central location with a lot of hotels. I think they have 3 or 4 fields. Contact the Marathon County parks and recs for info. One problem, there is currently an ASA league run there and everyone hates them, including the city. I live in Wausau but my team travels from Rhinelander area, it would be a 5 hour drive to get to your tourneys, and then we would have to stay how far away from the field? If you want to go way up North I will talk to my dad this weekend and see if they are interested in helping you put one on, on their fields, they have 3 with a potencial to convert another one for softball, 4 all together. All of these fields are in excellent condition. I know how these things go man I was just throwing some thoughts out there.
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Post by roberts8482 on Jul 15, 2011 14:25:42 GMT -5
well put TAK and SS. It just doesn't seem worth it to go play, though we'd like to.
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Post by southside on Jul 15, 2011 15:17:52 GMT -5
Sparta has a 4 complex field that they run two 32 team tournaments at each year. No sanctions at all are involved. Holmen also has a 3 field that they do the same at once a year (used to be 2)
No sanctionions are involved with anything on the West Side of the State . . .
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Post by jimvalentine on Jul 15, 2011 15:42:19 GMT -5
Please do not think, that I think, you are making personal attacks on me.
You are all posting legitimate issues. I am just trying to shed some light on why I make the decisions I do.
You are perfectly accurate. I do live in the SE corner of the state. Send you are correct that puts me at a disadvantage. Those are facts. it is hard for me to take issue with that.
Let me tell you a story. About 4 years ago my brother and I drove 4 hours to a city in the middle of the state to present the NSA. I told them that I would love to have them come on board. I gave them all the advantages of being an NSA city, but I also told them a potential disadvantage. I was afraid their umpires might be black balled from working other associations. After I left they dicussed the matter. the head of the softball committee was on my side. They voted NSA down for the very reason I gave them. They felt the umpires would be blackballed as well. A week later the head of their committee resigned in protest.
The problem as I see it, and I should probably shut up here, is that you reward bad behavior. And, you do not reward good behavior. As long as the ballplayers of this state do that the situation will not get better. Why should it?
Cwall282 Let's wait to talk about next year. I need to get this year finished first.
Southside. New Richmond, near Minneapolis is NSA sanctioned.
And that is all I have to say about that, for now.
Thanks everyone,
Jim
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rain
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by rain on Jul 16, 2011 20:25:04 GMT -5
I've played for about the last decade with Kim's Barrel Inn/Artistic Signs and we never played state because you only get punished if you were to win say class C state or take 2nd they move you up in class. On top of that once you get classified as class B a lot of the tournament directors around here will not let you into their tournament because they do not want their other teams to drop out. The league requirements also hamstring a lot of class C teams when it comes to tournaments where you more often than not you play against a class B team with no such roster requirements.
They need to get rid of the silly roster requirements, THAT NO ONE FOLLOWS, and the moving teams up in class after they win the state tournament. Let a team defend their title! If a team 3-peats then I'd force them to move up otherwise I'd allow teams to play in the division that their teams are designed for. The difference between class C and class B is about 3 or 4 new and different types of players. No team should be forced to do that until they have proven themselves over a longer period of time.
The money thing is unfortunate for our state but that is the way it is. The key to the really good tournaments around here are the ones that have a good base of VOLUNTEERS. If you've got a decent amount of volunteers for your tournament, a good format and a consistent ball chances are you've got a really good tournament on your hands. State doesn't have any of that and that's why teams do not play.
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Post by jimvalentine on Jul 16, 2011 21:58:29 GMT -5
NSA does not move you up for winning state.
Jim
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Post by wheelhouse on Jul 17, 2011 19:13:07 GMT -5
What would a "city" league have to do to become a santioned NSA league?
Another question I have is what is the incentive that a team has for playing NSA state? Automatic bid to nationals? Travel $$ for nationals? I'm not up to speed with what's out there.
Also, how are the bats tested at state tournaments or sactioned tournaments? IMO a compression tester is the only true test. Someone earlier eluded to the testing at a Joilet tournament and yes that is the only right way to do it.
Im curious to your answers. Thanks
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head
New Member
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Post by head on Jul 17, 2011 21:34:42 GMT -5
Dewey,
The only one of the tournaments you listed that is WSL is Owatonna. Shakopee and the Fireman's are both ASA and ran through the North Star Series. WSL is dead, another association ran into the ground by people with no clue
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Post by jimvalentine on Jul 17, 2011 22:49:00 GMT -5
Hi Guys,
First step is for the City to give me a call me (262 862 7165) so I can come in to talk. All teams would have to register to be NSA. The Umpires would have to be NSA as well. All teams would receive berths to the NSA State Championship. We would then be able to run NSA tournaments in your city at a reasonable cost, including State Championships. If I could sign up enough teams I could get Regionals and World Series here in Wisconsin.
State Champion gets unpaid berth to the Super World Series, World Series and Reg. 2nd Place and 3rd PLace get berths to WS and Reg. 4th-6th Place get a berth to the Regional.
I can offer travel money to be paid at the Supers, for 1st Place. How much, would be determined by the number of teams that sign up. All I try to do on tournaments is break even.
We do not test bats at our tournaments. I think if you ask the teams that play NSA in Wisconsin we have a pretty good group of guys and we police ourselves because we know each other. I am not saying that some don't get by us but I don't think many do.
I am told, and I am not an expert, that we test differently that the other associations and a tester for us is much more expensive.
Try to read up on BBCOR bats. They are mandatory in NCAA college this year and some high schools. Next year all high schools will have to be BBCOR. This means that there is no "give" in the bat. I suspect in the next few years we will all be BBCOR and it will be like hitting with an aluminum bat. The April issue of Popular Science has an article on BBCOR. If you want a copy, e-mail me and I will send it to you. WisconsinNSA@Gmail.com.
Also the NSA has contracted with all bat companies, that in 2012, they will make bats with non-tamper proof caps. We will see what that looks like when we see them. Then we can see what new ways guys can find to "doctor" the bats.
Thanks,
Jim
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Post by cwall282 on Jul 19, 2011 7:58:12 GMT -5
@ Jimvalentine
My dad said he would run a tourney for you guys in the northwoods any weekend except the weekend after fathers day. He just needs to know what you guys need and when. They do a lot of self promoting and have a huge contact list. I know the park has a deal with Budweiser and Miller. They will run the concesion and they will also do all the announcing and scorekeeping. Best part is there is no city league there now so you won't have a problem with the umps.
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Post by blablanc on Jul 19, 2011 11:41:03 GMT -5
Back to the original topic regarding ASA state and teams not participating, I think part of the problem is that in mke leagues everyone thinks that whoever wins the city or county tourney is the best team in the state. I don't mean to offend anyone, but obviously there are some pretty good teams all over the state which is why a mke team doesn't always win state. I play with Vault, but I have also played in mke and waukesha, and I think teams need to stop putting the city tournaments on such a pedestal and step up to the plate and prove themselves against the rest of the state. The teams that did represent the mke area made a great showing and I think it might have been a different outcome for KA if it wasn't so hot so I guess I was thankful for the heat. That is just my opinion but hopefully some teams will feel challenged by it and enter into the state tourney next year.
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Post by newguy on Jul 19, 2011 13:28:58 GMT -5
Agreed! The north and south both have solid teams...As we have seen at state the last few years it hasnt always been the Milwaukee teams winning or just the north winning...There were alot of teams this weekend with good games and a chance to make it to the top..Within an out or two or a hit or two away..It is slowpitch softball..Every weekend can be different. I do agree that they have to stop bumping teams up so much if they want softball to grow in WI though..Other states arent doing it so why are we?? Disher?? any response to any of this would be great
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Post by bgraser12 on Jul 19, 2011 14:52:39 GMT -5
I run the KA team, and we did win the mke city tournament last year. I think the state tournament is very prestigious but not when its 10 teams. MKE has usually 10-12 teams that should be represented up at state. the point of me starting this thread was to try and figure out ways to get those teams along with more teams in other areas to come. 10 teams is pretty pathetic really. There were very very good teams up at state this weekend, but the reason why people love the mke city tourny is that 1. it used to be put on TV (when my dad played) and 2. used to have thousands of people show up to watch. Now its not as many probably championship friday has bout 1000 people. THats a pretty big deal. I agree that more teams need to come but its not just from mke its from all sorts of other areas too that need to have teams come. Now the whole bump up thing is a different topic. I will be pretty un happy if we who took 2nd place has our team bumped to B next year. the first time we play and take 2nd a automatic bump up with 10 teams? When there is no B and don't you want to win something not take second or third? So i'm not sure how that all works but assuming we don't get bumped we will be back at C state next year!
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Post by newguy on Jul 19, 2011 15:54:59 GMT -5
hopefully we will meet up there again then..and hopefully there are a few more than ten teams there...It used to be alot bigger..D used to get 45-50 teams in it and that wasnt that long ago..We need to get it back up there!! We will push it up north..you push it down south!! and lets see what happens
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